[Mooji] Whatever you believe in, you will believe into existence, at some level. Logical mind is also illusion [M.] You’ll experience it as though it is real, you’ll not even wish to challenge
the reality or unreality of thought. Dialogues with Mooji
Berkeley, California September ’08
Part 2 [M.] Even this idea of thinking
that thoughts are so important is itself an indulgence of the mind. The mind creates this as a sort of avoidance.
It’s nothing at all! [Questioner] Just giving itself importance.
[M.] Exactly. I don’t need to add to that statement.
You said it. It’s creating a sense of self-importance. The difference between what you may call an ignorant mind or person, and the sage, is that the sage does not give importance
to these thoughts. Knowing full well,
if something is meant to manifest beyond merely abstract thought
into actual actions, it will take place by itself. There’s no independent operator
of that activity. They understand this so they leave it. [Q.] Then it’s really silly
to be afraid of your own thoughts. Like I hear, if you have bad thoughts,
bad things will manifest, and this is a kind of common superstition. [M.] Yes. It is not only superstition. Whatever you believe in,
you will believe into existence, at some level, you’ll experience it as real. You’ll not even wish to challenge
the reality or unreality of thought. This is like that. It is the belief in thoughts,
identity with thoughts, that give them strength,
energises them and gives them life. You are the source of them.
Don’t be confused about it. [Q.] They are not true,
but they influence this world, which is not true as well. [M.] Thank you.
Again you said it: it’s not real. The mere manifestation of something
is not evidence of its reality. Because something appears
does not mean it’s automatically real. It means it appears. Many such phenomena appear and disappear, we’re not to think anything of them. That in which the appearance
and disappearance is recognised or perceived, we are That. We are only to stay as That. You may ask,
‘Do we have a choice to stay as That?’ Yes, actually. I have to say this. [Q.] It’s not an easy choice
because there are … [M.] It’s the only choice you really have. [Q.] Millions of things you can do
to distract you from That. [M.] If you are so easily seduced by what you call the distractions,
then what to do? You will swim off by yourself for a while
until you’re fed up of it. [Q.] It’s like one thing,
like staying at the centre and then the infinity of directions around. [M.] Little bit by little bit, you’ll come to see that you are the unchanging core
of all that you speak about, that you are the perceiver of them, that apart from you
none of these things exist. They emanate out of you,
they entertain you and they molest you. They molest you when you touch them,
when you touch them they bite you. Their bite is telling you,
‘Leave us, we are not real. If you keep on touching us
we’re going to bite you.’ Still you want to go. [laughs] [Q.] The logical mind has difficulty to accept this because there are millions of people
and each person … [M.] Logical mind is also illusion.
A logical mind is illusion! Who will accept this, I don’t know.
[Q.] Schopenhauer. [M.] Schopenhauer is also illusion.
[laughs] Illusion! I as I. You as you. Illusion. Meaning ‘I’ as independent from you,
this is illusion. ‘I’ is one, manifesting in each form, appearing to be other than, or other,
or both, or more. All this is illusion. [Q.] Schopenhauer said it beautifully … [M.] What are you saying?
Forget about Schopenhauer. What are You saying?
What are You seeing? Trust in your own authority. [Q.] I don’t see a better way to say it. Like every being is saying ‘I’. And no being is seeing that,
when they say ‘I’, it’s the same ‘I’, in the past, the future, or now. [M.] It’s not enough, because when you say ‘I’ and you take this ‘I’ to be this particular body, this particular identity,
that you cannot help seeing other than ‘I’. [Q.] Then this ‘I’ is the unmanifest, and everybody is identified … [M.] No, this ‘I’ is not the un-manifest. This ‘I’ is the manifestation of the un-manifest. [Q.] Exactly. And that the mind, the intellect, is the superficial manifestation of this? [M.] Let’s not go down this road.
Let’s chop it now. Whatever arises as ‘I’,
there’s a prior awareness within which even ‘I’ arises and is perceived. How long must we wait
for that awareness to be recognised? What bars you from the direct recognition that ‘I’ is either synonymous, is the voice of this awareness
manifesting through consciousness? What stops you from seeing this? So therefore, ‘I’ and consciousness
and awareness are one, essentially. That the manifest and the un-manifest are one, or you may call it two aspects of the same one. Don’t keep going on and on. If you’ve seen, then right there,
digest your seeing. Don’t keep rolling on to another,
because then it just feels like you’ve come into the very fire of understanding. You jump out into the water, swimming, to try and see
if you can dry off in the sun. [laughs] So, I have to stop you right there. Reverse back to that
very profound insight and recognition, that ‘I’ is nothing other than awareness announcing itself through consciousness. [music] You are not ‘AT’ the Core You ARE the Unborn Core